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All withdrawals from Refco FX "frozen"

  • #1
  • Quote
  • First Post: Oct 18, 2005 10:14am Oct 18, 2005 10:14am
Apparently all withdrawals from Refco FX are frozen until further notice, although clients can still trade (very useful as you can't windraw your profits anyway). How is this possible? Does CFTC allow that?
  • #2
  • Quote
  • Oct 18, 2005 11:47am Oct 18, 2005 11:47am
Refco Inc. filed for Bankruptcy.

Here's the story: http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/051017/finac...er11.html?.v=1

They are also in talks with JC Flowers to sell them their futures brokerage unit.

Story here: http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/051017/finan...efco.html?.v=4


I think the brokerage industry are going to see some tough days ahead. Regulators proved that they are not always content with just 1 scandel at a time.

Thanks,

Nader
  • #3
  • Quote
  • Oct 18, 2005 12:09pm Oct 18, 2005 12:09pm
Refco going bankrupt? This is where I just sent my funds to open my account. I guess I should have shopped around a bit? Hows Oanda, I know their EUR/USD pip spread is 2 instead of 3.




Mike...
***Building an EMPIRE one pip at a time***
  • #4
  • Quote
  • Oct 18, 2005 1:26pm Oct 18, 2005 1:26pm
Here is a blurb of a conversation I had with Refcofx



"RefcoFX#8: Welcome to RefcoFX's Live Chat feature. You are now chatting with a RefcoFX representative. How can I help you?
You:: I hear that RefcoFx has put a freeze on withdraws. Is this true?
RefcoFX#8: Do you currently have a live account with RefcoFX?
You:: Yes I do
You:: Do you need the account number?
RefcoFX#8: Yes, what is hte account number?
You:: XXXXXXXXX
RefcoFX#8: Thank you...
RefcoFX#8: The Refco Group has instructed us (RefcoFX Associates LLC) to delay payments out of all Refco accounts until they sort out banking and internal matters.
RefcoFX#8: You may still continue to place trades on your account at this time.
You:: What does that mean exactly?
RefcoFX#8: It means that the Refco Group has instructed us to delay payments out of all RefcoFX accounts until they sort out banking and internal matters.
You:: Is there a time frame on this. How long of a delay is there?
You:: Are my funds safe?
RefcoFX#8: There is still no official Refco Inc. statement despite our efforts to extract one but we expect more information within that time. We do not know a time frame at this time as we have not received an official statement from the Refco Group despite our attempts to extract a statement.
You:: Is there a chance I will lose my funds?
RefcoFX#8: Unfortunately i can only give the information Refco Group has instructed. Once we have more information you will be notified.
You:: Thank you!"


I am not too happy to say the least
Fdisk Please I just want a few pips. Is that too much to ask?
  • #5
  • Quote
  • Oct 18, 2005 2:13pm Oct 18, 2005 2:13pm
Thats a little uneasy if they cant say "yes your funds are insured and safe"


They should be insured correct?


Mike...
***Building an EMPIRE one pip at a time***
  • #6
  • Quote
  • Oct 18, 2005 2:19pm Oct 18, 2005 2:19pm
Apparently all withdrawals from Refco FX are frozen until further notice, although clients can still trade (very useful as you can't windraw your profits anyway). How is this possible? Does CFTC allow that?
I think the CFTC regulates the business practices but once a firm files for bankruptcy its a matter for the courts to decide.

Refco is a very big company and its forex division is actually a very small part of it. As such, I do not think that what is happening with Refco will have any regulatory effect on the "spot" Forex industry.
I was here, here I was. Was I here? Yes I was!
  • #7
  • Quote
  • Oct 18, 2005 6:25pm Oct 18, 2005 6:25pm
Thats a little uneasy if they cant say "yes your funds are insured and safe"


They should be insured correct?


Mike...
Of course funds are not "insured" (by whom???), and it now seems that Refco FX wasn't even properly regulated despite their claims to the contrary.
  • #8
  • Quote
  • Oct 18, 2005 6:54pm Oct 18, 2005 6:54pm
Refco going bankrupt? This is where I just sent my funds to open my account. I guess I should have shopped around a bit? Hows Oanda, I know their EUR/USD pip spread is 2 instead of 3.


I am very pleased with Oanda. I've been trading with them since Feb 05.

(BTW the spread for EUR/USD is 1.5 most of the time)
  • #9
  • Quote
  • Oct 18, 2005 8:24pm Oct 18, 2005 8:24pm
I had an account with RefcoFx and closed it today, Oct. 18th. There was no problem at all, I withdrew all my money (they even transferred it directly to another broker as I instructed). So... things are far from clear.
  • #10
  • Quote
  • Oct 18, 2005 8:29pm Oct 18, 2005 8:29pm
I have a live acct with them and this is starting to look really ugly.

Maybe anyone with more years of trading experience can tell us if somethig like this has happened in the recent past? What was the outcome?

Thanks,
Bonete
  • #11
  • Quote
  • Oct 18, 2005 9:07pm Oct 18, 2005 9:07pm
I had an account with RefcoFx and closed it today, Oct. 18th. There was no problem at all, I withdrew all my money (they even transferred it directly to another broker as I instructed). So... things are far from clear.
Which broker did they transfer your funds to?
  • #12
  • Quote
  • Oct 18, 2005 9:16pm Oct 18, 2005 9:16pm
I received an advertising email today from another FX Market Maker/Broker telling me that they have a special offer if I am opening my account with them and transfering my money from a RefcoFX/FXCM/ACM account.

Can you just believe it? The title of the email was: "RefcoFX, FXCM, and ACM clients - Don't sink with the Refco ship".

Thanks,

Nader
  • #13
  • Quote
  • Oct 18, 2005 9:58pm Oct 18, 2005 9:58pm
Which broker did they transfer your funds to?
GFT
  • #14
  • Quote
  • Oct 19, 2005 8:43am Oct 19, 2005 8:43am
Heres some more info:

And ya insured, I thought if it was your money your acount that something would be backing it up? I know if the bank you have your money in gets robbed your funds are insured, is this a tottaly different kind of deal, should one constantly be pulling their money out of a FX account incase that their company goes bankrupt? I just dont understand how they could get away with taking everyones money .




RefcoFX]6: The Refco Group has instructed us (RefcoFX Associates LLC) to delay payments out of all Refco accounts until they sort out banking and internal matters. The only exceptions to this are RefcoFX Canada accounts.
RefcoFX]6:
RefcoFX]6: At this time, the information we have is that there are numerous potential purchasers who are interested in buying the futures division and other entities of the Refco Group. We anticipate that the proceeds will help expedite the repayment of customer funds to RefcoFX Associates LLC and that any freeze of their funds/accounts is temporary.
You:: will the platform change if another company takes over
RefcoFX]6: depends
RefcoFX]6: but probably not
***Building an EMPIRE one pip at a time***
  • #15
  • Quote
  • Oct 19, 2005 7:14pm Oct 19, 2005 7:14pm
I received an advertising email today from another FX Market Maker/Broker telling me that they have a special offer if I am opening my account with them and transfering my money from a RefcoFX/FXCM/ACM account.

Can you just believe it? The title of the email was: "RefcoFX, FXCM, and ACM clients - Don't sink with the Refco ship".

Thanks,

Nader
That is priceless!!!! Which bucket shop was it?
I was here, here I was. Was I here? Yes I was!
  • #16
  • Quote
  • Oct 19, 2005 10:39pm Oct 19, 2005 10:39pm
That is priceless!!!! Which bucket shop was it?
GCI...lol

Thanks,

Nader
  • #17
  • Quote
  • Oct 20, 2005 2:09am Oct 20, 2005 2:09am
Dear Mike Stephens,

Thank you for your recent money order, however, RefcoFX is not
accepting funds at this time and your money order will be returned to you.
RefcoFX Associates LLC (RefcoFX) is formally operating under Chapter 11
bankruptcy protection, as of October 17/18, 2005.

RefcoFX Associates LLC (RefcoFX) is formally operating under Chapter 11
bankruptcy protection, as of October 17/18, 2005.

The Refco Group has instructed RefcoFX Associates to delay payments to
RefcoFX accounts until they sort out banking and internal matters.

Efforts are being made by Refco to raise capital in order to re-pay
creditors and to meet obligations. Current information indicates there are
numerous potential purchasers who are interested in buying the futures
division and other entities of the Refco Group. Refco anticipates that
the proceeds will help expedite the repayment of customer funds to
RefcoFX Associates LLC (RefcoFX) and that any freeze of client
funds/accounts is temporary. Please note that the process that has begun will last
weeks or months, and not hours or days.

The Refco board of directors, as well as attorneys and regulators, are
working diligently in consummating a deal, and Refco believes that new
ownership will restore clients and business activity back to normal.
As per news releases, it appears that an agreement with bidders is
imminent.

Until RefcoFX has additional information with regard to the situation
surrounding the Refco Group of companies, RefcoFX cannot make further
comments or statements based on current events or headlines. As soon as
we receive further information from Refco Group, RefcoFX will update all
customers on any course of action to be taken.

In the meantime our customer representatives will be happy to assist
you with any existing account questions or trade related inquiries.
Please feel free to contact the friendly and professional RefcoFX staff via
e-mail at [email protected] or telephone at (212) 609-2960 or
domestically toll free at (877) 538-8820.
***Building an EMPIRE one pip at a time***
  • #18
  • Quote
  • Nov 3, 2005 12:24pm Nov 3, 2005 12:24pm
Heres some more info:

And ya insured, I thought if it was your money your acount that something would be backing it up? I know if the bank you have your money in gets robbed your funds are insured, is this a tottaly different kind of deal, should one constantly be pulling their money out of a FX account incase that their company goes bankrupt? I just dont understand how they could get away with taking everyones money .




RefcoFX]6: The Refco Group has instructed us (RefcoFX Associates LLC) to delay payments out of all Refco accounts until they sort out banking and internal matters. The only exceptions to this are RefcoFX Canada accounts.
RefcoFX]6:
RefcoFX]6: At this time, the information we have is that there are numerous potential purchasers who are interested in buying the futures division and other entities of the Refco Group. We anticipate that the proceeds will help expedite the repayment of customer funds to RefcoFX Associates LLC and that any freeze of their funds/accounts is temporary.
You:: will the platform change if another company takes over
RefcoFX]6: depends
RefcoFX]6: but probably not
Have you heard about the purchase of RefcoFX client base by FXCM and also the purchase of Refco's share in FXCM by itself? Drew Niv was on DailyFX and there's a dialog on there -- sounds encouraging.
May the PIP$ be with you
  • #19
  • Quote
  • Nov 4, 2005 7:39am Nov 4, 2005 7:39am
Have you heard about the purchase of RefcoFX client base by FXCM and also the purchase of Refco's share in FXCM by itself? Drew Niv was on DailyFX and there's a dialog on there -- sounds encouraging.
There is maybe something I am missing here but... let's say FXCM takes over Refco's customer funds, which means that you can withdraw immidiately. If you can withdraw immidiately that means that the cash is actually THERE, but then why can't you withdraw now, why is it frozen in the first place ?? This doesnt make sense.

Or, perhaps, the cash is NOT there meaning that FXCM will buy, i.e. cover with their money an X amount of the hole thus "buying back" Refco's share in FXCM. The risk for FXCM is not as high as it seems since most customers will probably not withdraw but trade themselves to zero anyway.

I am purely speculating here but either way, I think it's pretty scary.
  • #20
  • Quote
  • Nov 4, 2005 8:26am Nov 4, 2005 8:26am
There is maybe something I am missing here but... let's say FXCM takes over Refco's customer funds, which means that you can withdraw immidiately. If you can withdraw immidiately that means that the cash is actually THERE, but then why can't you withdraw now, why is it frozen in the first place ?? This doesnt make sense.

Or, perhaps, the cash is NOT there meaning that FXCM will buy, i.e. cover with their money an X amount of the hole thus "buying back" Refco's share in FXCM. The risk for FXCM is not as high as it seems since most customers will probably not withdraw but trade themselves to zero anyway.

I am purely speculating here but either way, I think it's pretty scary.
FXCM clearly wants to remove Refco as a shareholder; the would provide some cash to the Bankruptcy court as well. In exchange I'm sure what they're asking the judge is to pass the RefcoFX customer accounts in tact (with their cash) over to FXCM. No doubt many will leave. But if FXCM doesn't pay that much for that, and they do pay to remove Refco from their shareholders...the bankruptcy court still sees money that can be used for the purposes of paying creditors of Refco.
May the PIP$ be with you
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